Five things we learnt from this week's Sophy Ridge on Sunday
Leading politicians discussed Brexit and the new tiered system of coronavirus restrictions.
Monday 30 November 2020 14:56, UK
As England prepares to exit its second national lockdown, the show's guests debated the new tiered system of restrictions that will replace the shutdown.
1) 'Light at the end of the tunnel' in fight against COVID-19
Dominic Raab has said the new vaccines for coronavirus give the UK "an exit strategy" and provide "cautious grounds for hope".
The foreign secretary said the UK could "move to a whole different world" by the spring, with a vaccine already handed out to key workers and "the most vulnerable, particularly by age".
With a rebellion against the new toughened tiers system brewing on Conservative backbenches, Mr Raab was also at pains to set out what criteria underlie the tiers.
He said "the prevalence of the virus, the prevalence in the over-60s, the testing rates, the positivity testing rates", and "the impact on the NHS", were what the government examined.
He did add a certain amount of wriggle room, though, saying the decision was ultimately a "question of judgement", something unlikely to reassure MPs who want to be able to offer constituents and businesses certainty.
2) 'Show me the evidence', says unhappy Conservative MP
A new promise that MPs will be able to vote on the new tiered restrictions in nine weeks' time wasn't enough to persuade Conservative MP Pauline Latham.
She said that not only would she "like to see the opportunity to vote before nine weeks is up", but she also wanted "to see the evidence" underlying the new and toughened tiers.
With a vote on the measures set for Tuesday, before England's national lockdown ends, the rebels are worried that areas might stay under strict conditions without clear criteria and with no set route for how to move between tiers.
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Mr Raab's promise - to publish "analysis of the cost benefits of both the COVID health outcomes, the non-COVID health outcomes, the economic impact and the social impact" before any vote - was pitched exactly at MPs like Ms Latham, who have yet to decide if they'll vote against their government.
But the Derbyshire MP also made clear she was concerned about the economic effects of lockdown, saying "many of those businesses in the country, not just here, will not survive if they can only open for five days at Christmas" - and, in particular, the "huge, huge" hospitality industry will find it very hard to "come back" once it's collapsed.
Although clearly less than pleased with her constituency being in Tier 3, she had warm words for one government figure at least in the form of Rishi Sunak, saying the chancellor had done an "amazing job".
3) Politicians 'live in an ivory tower'
Businessman Hugh Osmond was in complete agreement, saying "under Tier 2, let alone Tier 3, most hospitality businesses are not viable" and that Mr Johnson "needs to meet some of these people and see how his measures are destroying those lives".
The founder of Punch Taverns, and one-time Pizza Express boss, told the show: "I think sometimes that these politicians live in another world and they live in something of an ivory tower."
He warned about the effects of the restrictions on young people in particular, saying hospitality and retail are the "biggest employers of young people, the biggest offers of entry-level jobs to people who don't have great qualifications".
And if the prime minister "destroys all those jobs and all those businesses, he will not achieve his levelling-up," Mr Osmond added.
As a former Conservative donor, he condemned the party as no friend of business "at the moment" - but conceded that Mr Sunak's Treasury was doing a "pretty good job".
4) 'The last week' of Brexit negotiations?
Only four-and-a-half years on from the vote to leave the EU (and with time ticking down), Mr Raab also held out the prospect of a trade agreement with the EU.
Mr Raab said "there is a deal to be done" and it was "the last week or so" for "substantive" negotiations.
The foreign secretary (and former Brexit secretary under Theresa May) said there was a possible "landing zone" on the key issue of the level playing field - "if the EU is as reasonable as the UK has been".
He was less positive on the issue of fishing rights, saying there were "significant differences" between the two sides to resolve and that a proposal for the UK to control 18% of fisheries in its waters "can't be right".
5) Labour support 'principle' of new COVID tiers
Labour's Jim McMahon had some cooperative words, saying the "principle" of the COVID tier system was right as "interventions which are needed are on a regional and sub-regional basis, and ought to be in line with the infection rate and the spread of the virus, the R rate, the impact on local hospitals".
The idea that the government might need to rely on Labour votes in the event of a Tory rebellion is, as yet, unlikely.
But it would be particularly unpopular with Conservative MPs hoping they'd be listened to instead.
Mr McMahon also moved further than many other Labour figures on backing any eventual Brexit deal, saying his party wanted "to do a deal that we can support".
By backing a Brexit deal, Labour would avoid being accused of frustrating the will of the people, though the caveat that "we would consider it a foundational agreement which is something to build up" so long as "there is nothing in there that causes significant concern" may be less encouraging for the government.