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Politics latest: Treasury minister challenged over reason for winter fuel U-turn

Rachel Reeves has announced the winter fuel payment will be restored to all pensioners with an income of 拢35,000 or less. The government is claiming an improved economy has allowed for the U-turn.

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How much is the winter fuel payment?

Boyd :

How much is the winter fuel payment?

Thanks for the question, Boyd.

People eligible for the winter fuel allowance will get 拢200 - or 拢300 if they're aged over 80.

If it's a household with two pensioners, the payments are halved.

And if one of them earns more than the 拢35,000 threshold, they won't receive anything and the other will get half the payment.

A reminder that this is in England and Wales - the arrangements in Scotland and Northern Ireland are devolved.

'I just don't believe that's the truth': Watch Sophy Ridge challenge minister over winter fuel U-turn

Rachel Reeves has performed a major U-turn on her decision to cut the winter fuel allowance for millions of pensioners - and our Sophy Ridge is not convinced by the government's explanation.

The chancellor and other ministers have claimed an improving economic picture has allowed for the change - rather than the policy being deeply unpopular with voters.

Watch Sophy challenge the Treasury minister below:

No 10 and Treasury trying to clear 'barnacles' with winter fuel U-turn

Luke Sullivan is one of those very powerful people in politics you have probably never heard of.

He worked as Sir Keir Starmer's political director until the party came into government and worked for the Labour Party and Labour MPs for almost 20 years.

Speaking to Sophy Ridge tonight, he tries to explain some of the thinking behind the government's decision to U-turn on winter fuel payments.

'A really, really big moment'

He says the initial decision was taken to show markets Labour were serious - and that it was reversed when it became clear it was a problem on the doorstep during the local elections.

He describes it as clearing "barnacles on the boat" and ensuring the government can focus on "a really, really big moment" for the prime minister and chancellor: Wednesday's spending review, which sets departmental budgets for the coming years.

Sullivan says taking the U-turn now ensures the spending review is the "story of this week".

Is Reeves on the brink?

When a minister is forced to make such a big U-turn, it is not uncommon to think they might get the heave-ho from government.

Sophy asks Sullivan if Chancellor Rachel Reeves might be heading towards the exit after the disastrous saga of the winter fuel payment.

He says: "Ultimately Keir and Rachel have a really strong relationship - not just personally and professionally, also their teams. The individuals who are around them who have worked for Keir, they are a tight team."

He says while it's been "tough going", Number 10 and Number 11 are "aligned closely".

Asked if Reeves made a mistake that the PM has had to rectify, Sullivan concedes Starmer is someone who is a "delegator" - but that doesn't mean he's not across the details or doesn't get involved.

Chancellor made a 'big, big mistake' and should apologise, says senior Tory

Next up with Sophy Ridge is Helen Whately, the shadow work and pensions secretary.

She welcomes today's announcement on winter fuel payments, saying Labour made a "big, big mistake" with the cuts last year.

"They penalised hundreds of thousands of pensioners - it wasn't something they had warned they would do before the election, and then Rachel Reeves made out it was the right thing to do," she says.

What about all those Tory U-turns?

Whately dismisses the chancellor's argument that the economy has improved enough to allow her to U-turn.

She says Rachel Reeves should apologise to pensioners - prompting Sophy to point out the Tories performed plenty of U-turns in their time and didn't say sorry for them.

Whately objects to this, suggesting leader Kemi Badenoch has acknowledged the party "made mistakes when we were in government".

She accuses Reeves of "trying to pull the wool over people's eyes", with many economic metrics "going in the wrong direction".

Growth down, debt up... how can the government say the economy is better?

Today's U-turn has been justified by the government, with ministers saying the economy is doing better than last year, when they first limited the winter fuel payment.

Sophy Ridge puts to Treasury minister James Murray that growth forecasts are down, debt is up, and that actually it's a political decision.

He repeatedly claims the economy is in a better position, but struggles to point to much of a reason why.

The minister claims the UK had the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the first quarter of 2025, and interest rates have continued their downwards trajectory.

Sophy continues to push the minister on why the government isn't just conceding the political nature of the decision.

She says things like tariffs and Donald Trump have sunk global finances globally, and debt has risen from 94.8% of GDP to 95.5% of GDP.

Fiscal rules, fiscal rules鈥�

Murray tries giving the answer: "If you look at the public finances, the chancellor set out her fiscal rules last year.

"Those fiscal rules are being met in terms of what happened to the budget last year, in terms of the update of the spring statement."

This鈥� isn't the most solid evidence for economic growth that has ever been provided.

Murray then goes on to say that forecasts of growth over the course of the parliament are up - but doesn't address the fact that anything has improved in the figures for the past year.

A slow motion U-turn - and an entirely unnecessary year of political pain

Winter fuel has been one of the most drawn out U-turns in history - the political equivalent of taking a wrong turn onto a motorway and driving for 50 miles before you can finally turn around.

This is a piece of research by the pollsters More In Common, looking at how popular or unpopular certain things are but also - crucially - how much people know about them.

If you're on the bottom left of the screen, it's basically fine. Everyone hates the idea, but nobody knows about it so you've got away with it. 

Top right, you're in heaven. Everyone loves it, everyone knows about it. Increasing the minimum wage and helping Ukraine are in the sweet spot.

But the place you really don't want to be is the bottom right. That means everyone knows about the policy - and they hate it. 

By far the most hated policy is the winter fuel cut - and the public are more aware of it than any other thing this Labour government has done.

So for political reasons, they probably had to U-turn. But the fact they've spent 11 months doing it has caused them an inordinate amount of political pain that turned out to be entirely unnecessary. 

Politics Hub With Sophy Ridge is live

Our flagship weeknight politics programme is under way.

Joining us tonight are Treasury minister James Murray MP, the shadow work and pensions secretary Helen Whately MP, and Keir Starmer's former director of politics Luke Sullivan.

On our panel are a duo of baronesses: Warsi and Chakrabarti.

Watch live in the stream at the top of this page.

'Starmer should apologise to us': Your views on winter fuel U-turn

Thanks to everyone who's submitted a question or comment about the winter fuel allowance news today.

We've answered some of your questions - you can find them in the key points above.

Here are some of your comments - most of you are supportive of the change made today, having struggled with last year's cuts:

"I'm only just above pension credit and I've struggled so much paying for heating. Starmer should make an apology to us."
Patricia D

"The question is who's going to pay for it? Pensioners on 拢35,000 a year definitely don't need the winter fuel payment, but the welfare budget is seriously out of control."
Izzy

"Rachel Reeves can't reverse the winter fuel payments and defend the original decision. The means testing that is being applied is so simple it should have been done in the first place. As for the economy being in better shape now - really?"
Crowlegs

"I am 87 years old and did not get my usual winter fuel payment. I was layering up and also using blankets, some days I just stayed in bed. I was so upset because I have worked hard all my life and paid my taxes all my working life."
Morrison

But some of you aren't so happy about it鈥�

"I thought the cut was reasonable. We now see potential for a couple on a joint income of 拢70k (likely with no mortgage) receiving the payment. On the other hand, this is paid for by taxation raised from working people on far less. It's time to cut tax and stop all the handouts."
Andy

"48yr old NHS worker, privately renting at 拢1,100pm on 拢26,000pa. Can I have a winter allowance too? Mortgage-free pensioners much better off than me will be raking it in."
Nic

"Completely wrong! We are a country ran by gerontocracy! It is simply not sustainable to keep handing out money to people, let alone to pensioners occupying million pound houses!"
Fuming!

"I am a pensioner, I still work as does my wife. We have a joint income of around 拢35,000. Do I need the winter fuel allowance? No. Those whose sole income is from benefits may need it but the vast majority don't. I support the withdrawal of the allowance and make it means tested."
Brian H

How much money is this saving the government?

James :

How much money did the government save by not giving the elderly the winter fuel payments?

Thanks for your question, James. 

The government estimated last year's winter fuel cut .

A reminder that the change - restricting it to those who get pension credit - reduced the number of people who received the benefit from more than 11 million to just 1.5 million.

The government has said the change made today - which brings the number who'll get it back up above nine million - will save 拢450m.

That's 拢450m compared to what it cost when the winter fuel payment was universal for all pensioners.

Though it's worth noting that economists have estimated the actual savings in both cases are lower, because of the increased uptake of pension credit since the initial changes were announced.

When will the winter fuel payment be sent?

Patricia :

When will I get my payment?

Hello there, Patricia - thanks for the question.

The payment should be made in November or December.

You don't need to do anything. Everyone over the state pension age will receive the payment automatically, unless you opt out in advance.

If you don't opt out and are above the 拢35,000 threshold, the payment will automatically be recovered by HMRC.